Hi Everybody, I’m a Duplicitious Frummie

Yeah me, I’ve finally arrived. I always wanted to be a duplicitous frummie ever since I fell asleep listening to my first Lipa CD while dreaming of writing a Gedolim biography. Now somebody give me my freaking Lexus and give it to me fast, I’ve got a raffle for some yeshiva to go to.

What’s all that about? Oh yeah. Let me backtrack. There are two kinds of people in the world. Sane people and insane people. Sane people might be annoying and obnoxious but you can actually debate them because they’re in the real world. Insane people are paranoid nutjobs who crusade for some wacko cause that lives inside their heads while assuming instantly that everyone who disagrees with them is aligned with their enemies.

So when I wrote a post shredding David Kelsey’s rambling paranoid delusions about NCSY over on Jewschool, he responded with an even crazier post on his own blog,Duplicitous Frummie Defends NCSY P.S. Infestation and Haredi Recruitment. Duplicitous frummie? Yeah he doesn’t read this blog much does he. But paranoid people always have lots of enemies even if they have to make them up.

Anyway. Let’s look at Mohel’s actual rebuttals, which though explained only a little, in between Mohel’s very great and justified outrage at me daring to question NCSY’s role in public school high school education and their wonderful role in helping to get our kids (but only a minority! And fuck the minority!) to attend haredi institutions. And of course, Mohel is upset at my unbelievable “idiocy” and “stupidity,”

Outraged? Upset? Dude I think you’re an amusing nutjob. I reserve my outrage for things that actually kill people and your posts haven’t killed anyone except maybe people’s brain cells. I’m not outraged at you. I did you a favor by pointing out that your post was a ranting screed that destroyed any credibility you had and betrayed your batshit paranoia.

Who appointed you a spokesman for deciding that all those kids don’t want to go to Haredi institutions and that going there hurts them? Hell who appointed you a spokesman for anybody or anything? Guess what, institutions are a pro and con thing. MO and Haredi places all have their pros and cons. That’s what makes life great. You don’t want your kids going to Haredi institutions, don’t send them there. But I’ve seen BT’s, adult and teenagers, time and time again choose on their own to go to the harder line shuls and communities and yeshivas, even when I suggested otherwise. (And no I’m not in Kiruv.) It’s their choice. Choice, get it?

Most NCSY kids will not go to haredi institutions. So what? I am worried about the ones who do. I would also like the numbers for those who do, but NCSY has refused to reveal that annual number. Which makes me concerned it is not a low number at all.

Who appointed you to worry for them? If you read this blog I’m not the biggest fan of Haredim but going to Haredi schools isn’t a death sentence. It’s a choice. If you don’t like it, leave. I spent time in Haredi schools and I hated it. That helped define my identity. That’s what life experience is all about

Additionally, I do not believe that the public schools are the right place for recruiting even a minority of students into fundamentalism. It doesn’t take a majority for me to determine that this is a problem. That is simply not what public schools are for, and not something most liberal and secular Jewish parents understand is happening.

Yeah why should we interfere with the Southern Baptist Convention’s Bible clubs recruiting those kids. It’s gotta be better than the Haredim, right? And who exactly gave you the authority to decide that what you call “fundamentalism” is out of bounds? You don’t like their recruitment, set up your own and stop bitching about it.

Just as you are in our schools, you must allow us into your private Orthodox High Schools for our own “clubs.” And when I say us, I mean atheists, Reform Jews, Conservative Jews, and especially, Apikorsim.

Sure when your tax dollars are what’s paying for the schools and when they belong to the government, you have every right to demand that. You have no right to demand equal access to private schools. Remind me when Secular Humanism schools lets Chabad set up shop there. Seriously Dave, you know better than that.

Fair is fair. And there is nothing to fear. Right, Mr. Mohel? No reason for paranoia or hysteria. Let us come speak to the frum kids at your schools and at after school programs, just as you come to our schools and speak to our kids.

Sorry Dave, I have no kids but if I did, I wouldn’t let you anywhere near them. Or my dog. Or my silverware. Not because of your religion or lack thereof but I’m pretty sure you haven’t had your shots.

Let’s start with the school kids in your synagogue attend. No? Then get out of our public schools, or at least, shut up.

Look dude, they’re not your schools. Except in your warped brain. Now why don’t you get back on the meds, calm the f__ down and ease up on the anger. It’s not good for you, Dave.

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15 thoughts on “Hi Everybody, I’m a Duplicitious Frummie

  1. Moshe says:

    This Dave sounds like a nutjob. Is he a legitmate blogger?
    He has too much hate in his tone.
    Good work Sam.

  2. DK says:

    Here’s 45 posts on why NCSY is problematic. When you’re done, I’ll get you the Jewschool posts: http://kvetcher.jewschool.com/category/ncsy/

  3. samuraimohel says:

    is there any organization that isn’t “problematic”?

    Bottom line is you’re wildly exaggerating the situation fueled by your own obvious hatred and you’re not actually contributing anything except paranoid smears

  4. DK says:

    “Who appointed you a spokesman for deciding that all those kids don’t want to go to Haredi institutions and that going there hurts them?”

    Who appointed NCSY to mislead who they are, and to recruit to haredi places behind their parents backs? They have no clue what’s going on — these clubs are called the Jewish “Student” Union, not the NCSY Recruitment Group.

    “Guess what, institutions are a pro and con thing.”

    Guess what, they still don’t belong in the public schools behind the parents backs.

    “If you read this blog I’m not the biggest fan of Haredim but going to Haredi schools isn’t a death sentence.”

    It doesn’t have to be a death sentence to mean inappropriate for public schools. Nice try though! (Not really.)

    “You have no right to demand equal access to private schools. ”

    No shit. Even though secular Jews give way more money to frum causes than vice versa. But my point is, NCSY is using liberalism against itself. People should know that.

    “Yeah why should we interfere with the Southern Baptist Convention’s Bible clubs recruiting those kids. It’s gotta be better than the Haredim, right?”

    NCSY is lying about who they are. You will not justify Jewish fundamentalism by scaring people about Christian fundamentalism. We can do quite well without either one in our public schools through deception , thank you.

    “But I’ve seen BT’s, adult and teenagers, time and time again choose on their own to go to the harder line shuls and communities and yeshivas, even when I suggested otherwise. (And no I’m not in Kiruv.) It’s their choice. Choice, get it?”

    We are talking about deceptive practices in the public space towards underage children behind their parents backs.

    Underage and deceptive. Get it? Get it? Get it?

  5. samuraimohel says:

    Here we go again

    NCSY doesn’t kidnap kids off the streets. Kids choose NCSY and their parents choose to go along with it. That’s consent. Nobody appointed you to speak for the kids. You’re presuming to use them as a soap box for your own issues with Orthodox Judaism.

    Your interpretation of NCSY as deceptive is supported only by a chain of assumptions and smears. You keep treating NCSY kids and parents as helpless and gullible victims which is just silly.

    Why is NCSY inappropriate for public schools but every other religious group is? Are we now going to distinguish by degrees of what you consider “fundamentalism”. It doesn’t work that way.

  6. DK says:

    “NCSY doesn’t kidnap kids off the streets. Kids choose NCSY and their parents choose to go along with it. That’s consent. ”

    First of all, that argument isn’t even relevant with the JSUs, Parents have no idea that this JSU is NCSY controlled. The JSU assiduously hides it is controlled by NCSY. Go here: http://jsu.org/z_about.htm

    “You keep treating NCSY kids and parents as helpless and gullible victims which is just silly.”

    Okay, I will pretend you are talking about NCSY proper, and not the JSU recruiting back door into NCSY.

    In that case, the parents are not silly. Most liberal and secular Jews do not understand all the differences between Modern Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox. Additionally, at face value, NCSY looks Modern Orthodox. But it is not, and particularly, the “alumni” programs are heavily haredi in terms of what they offer (in Israel, where parents can’t check it out so easily, and the haredi websites of Aish and OS are highly misleading) for liberal and secular Jews. Most of the MO yeshivas and seminaries are no accepting large numbers of public school Jews.

    Until two years ago, almost all “alumni” programming for liberal and secular Jews was haredi.

    “Why is NCSY inappropriate for public schools but every other religious group is?”

    Deception should not be appropriate for any group.

  7. samuraimohel says:

    Plenty of organizations have youth groups. If you’ve got orthodox Jews running an organization, that’s a dead giveaway that it’s Orthodox. Takes 5 minutes of research online to find out they’re connected.

    If your kids are involved in a religious group, it’s your responsibility to find out more about it. If it was my kids, I’d know every last thing about it by the time the week was through. Just because the parents are liberal or secular doesn’t mean they’re stupid so stop painting them as helpless infants.

  8. DK says:

    “If you’ve got orthodox Jews running an organization, that’s a dead giveaway that it’s Orthodox. Takes 5 minutes of research online to find out they’re connected.”

    Nothing online gives away that they are all Orthodox at all. JSU even uses superhero pictures to hide the Orthodoxy of many of the advisers. Look: http://www.jsu.org/z_advisors.php

    Additionally, JSU occassionally partners with BBYO, a non-denominational group, and for further subterfuge, adds non-Orthodox youth group links in the “Jewish links” section: http://www.jsu.org/z_links.htm

  9. samuraimohel says:

    yeah I so can’t tell that Kravitz is orthodox. And what they use superhero disguises around kids too? Get real.

    Oh man, Hatikvah! Now I know they’re haredim!

  10. DK says:

    Again, you don’t care if they are all Orthodox, you don’t care if the JSU is controlled by NCSY, and you don’t care if they send every last Jewish public school kid to OS/Neve and Aish. Not that this is happening, but you still wouldn’t care. It’s their choice, right?

    But you aren’t my audience. I’m not trying to convince Orthodox Jews that this is something they should be concerned about. I am trying to tell liberal and secular Jews (and their organizations) that they should be concerned about this.

    We will see if they become concerned. Maybe they won’t. I think they will.

    Keep in mind, I don’t even mind that JSU is Orthodox. I don’t like the deception, and I don’t like their haredi partnerships. But once they understand, some liberal and secular Jews may go further, and have issues simply with “The Orthodox” controlling their kids “student” clubs.

    It could be a big mess. We will see.

  11. samuraimohel says:

    Do I care about your paranoid obsessions? I thought I made it pretty clear that I didn’t. JSU is run by NCSY people, that’s no mystery. Every last kid isn’t going to Neve or Aish and there are worse places public school kids could end up. For someone who thinks Aish represents the devil like you, it’s a fate worse than death and there’s no point trying to reason with you.

    No I’m not your audience. Your audience is bigots who can be swayed by your paranoid obsessions. This is the internet so you’ll have no trouble finding them.

  12. Mobius says:

    i went to aish, and it -is- the devil

  13. samuraimohel says:

    Did the mean Rabbis make you cry by telling you Dinos didn’t exist and Barney isn’t real?

  14. O"Brien says:

    Kelsey is an Irish Catholic name. Why waste breath on him?

  15. Lilith at the Medresh says:

    The Barney comment hurt a lot Sam.

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