Stuck on Stupid – The Jackasses in Judaism and Kvetching about Niddah

Jewschool’s Resident Whiner or Kvetcher continues to offer plenty of entertainment with his obsessive deranged belief that the Baal Tesuvah movement is a way to create a permanent underclass to serve their frum overlords by picking cotton and strumming on their banjos at the plantation. Crazy, yes. Entertaining, also yes.

Ben Niddah is his latest whine. Now there’s an endless list of citations from Gedolim which say that we do not pay attention to Ben Niddah. I’m sure there’s people in the Haredi world who do. There’s also people in the Haredi world who care a whole lot about your color tablecloth and won’t marry you unless you’re related to a Rebbische family. There’s people in the Haredi world who are just plain nuts. Most of them won’t marry Baal Tesuvahs. Most of them won’t marry Modern Orthodox, Chassidim or 90 percent of other Haredim either.

Now in his latest nutty post, the Kvetcher claims Rabbi Avi Shafran was “trying to minimize the concerns of ben niddahism I raised”, even though Rabbi Shafran’s article was boilerplate “It’s Great When Jews Return to Judaism” stuff that has nothing to do with Kvetcher. But it’s typical of paranoid people to believe everyone is conspiring against them.

In complete desperation Kvetcher tries to cite Parshablog’s Rabbi Josh Waxman as supporting his position. The problem is that Parshablog’s post is on Non-Halachic Pegam. Or in plain English, prejudice with no actual legitimacy… while Kvetcher is trying to argue that this is an actual halachic issue that creates a barrier in the frum world.

The halachic reality is that ben niddah is not a real factor. Will some people be prejudiced against a BT over that? Sure, there are also people who will be prejudiced against a FFB in a kippah serugah or anyone whose haskafah or background varies from theirs in the least. There’s a name for them, narrowminded jackasses. But so what?

Anywhere you go, in any community of any religion or non-religion, you will find cliques. You will find people who even though you moved to the neighborhood and paid your dues and attend their church\synagogue\temple of boogalooga don’t like you, don’t want you in their house and don’t want you marrying their children. That’s life and you can’t get away from it no matter where you go.

Yes all BT’s and Gerim should be told honestly, sooner or later you’ll run into some jackasses. Every religion has them and G-d didn’t short us when it came to our share of idiots, numbskulls, fanatics and people you just want to kick in the head after five minutes of knowing them. We probably should kick them out but since they all form their own little cliques, they save us the trouble of doing it. Welcome to the club and yes… we hate them as much as you do.

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18 thoughts on “Stuck on Stupid – The Jackasses in Judaism and Kvetching about Niddah

  1. shoomy says:

    As if being frum is a guarantee someone isnt a ben niddah!
    Incidence of birth defects climbs in groups that do not allow new blood inside.

  2. samuraimohel says:

    it’s certainly no guarantee and poskim have said it themselves

  3. DK says:

    “Kvetcher is trying to argue that this is an actual halachic issue that creates a barrier in the frum world.”

    I never made such a claim. Not on Jewschool; not on The Kvetcher. Retract accordingly.

  4. DK says:

    “Kvetcher is trying to argue that this is an actual halachic issue that creates a barrier in the frum world.”

    I never made such a claim. Not on Jewschool; not on The Kvetcher.

  5. samuraimohel says:

    Yes you did, your whole post was geared to suggesting that it’s actual practice, dismissing the Rabbonim who have said otherwise as just trying to seduce unwary BT’s

    http://jewschool.com/2007/07/05/tainted-love-child-the-baal-teshuvahs-status-as-a-ben-niddah-in-the-haredi-world/

  6. Miriam says:

    I never made such a claim either and people are always saying I did.
    I want a retraction also. Can I get one too?

  7. samuraimohel says:

    We’re offering two retractions to the dozen today

    buy 3 retractions and toss us a candy and we’ll give you five retractions

    never mind how it works

  8. DK says:

    “Yes you did, your whole post was geared to suggesting that it’s actual practice”

    It is actual practice, though it is no halachically binding. Black hats are not halachically binding, but plenty of haredim wear those. As I wrote: http://jewschool.com/2007/07/26/returnees-welcome/
    “Since it is not halachically binding, the Modern Orthodox world has little use for casting aspersions upon the masses of Jewry today. This is an ultra-Orthodox outlook, and generally the further right-wing one goes, the more intense the theologically based aversion to “b’nai niddah” becomes.”

    What part of “not halachically binding” did you not understand?

  9. samuraimohel says:

    Not Halachically binding and not a legitimate Halachic practice are not the same thing. A point you fudged especially on JewSchool, a blog that doesn’t exactly cater to people who are expert on Orthodox Judaism.

    It is not legitimate halactic practice period.

    Your post pretended that this is a common issue and a common practice in the Haredi world

  10. DK says:

    I don’t understand your differentiation. Haredim have every religious right to discriminate against BTs if they so choose, and many most certainly do so choose. B’nai Niddahsim is one of the important ways they justify their contempt for those from a different background than theirs. There are many others, but this one is important in terms of justification, in part because it isn’t halachically binding, and in part because it casts defiled bloodstains unto a fellow Jew’s soul. I am fudging nothing. This is absolutely considered a legitimate view — just not a mandatory one.

  11. samuraimohel says:

    Actually no they do not have such a religious right. You’re confusing civil rights with religious rights again.

    Bnai Niddahism is not a factor for normal people. It’s right up there with the people who have sex twice a year or assume that someone who doesn’t eat cholent is not Jewish. You’re working hard to make it one to push your own agenda and we can tell your complete lack of credibility when one of your pieces of evidence consists of a citation from Brianna’s blog for crying out loud. You’re simply obsessed with claiming BT’s are some sort of slave race within Orthodox Judaism.

  12. DK says:

    Both RMF and the Steipler’s teshuvahs absolutely allow for a bias against B’nai Niddah. And I didn’t even go to what the Chassidim, such as Rabbi Menashe Klein, believe and espouse internally.

    “Bnai Niddahism is not a factor for normal people.”

    When did I claim haredim are “normal?”

    “You’re simply obsessed with claiming BT’s are some sort of slave race within Orthodox Judaism.”

    They are not slaves; they are often second class citizens.

    “Actually no they do not have such a religious right.”

    Tell it to Rabbi Shafran, whose article was based on the problems of integration, specifically through marriage, which you absolutely misrepresented in your pice as a generic “welcome back” article. Did you even read his article? I am getting bored of your lies/sloppiness.

    Rabbi Shafran wrote, http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1184766045643

    The importance of “family” – i.e. the “pedigree” of a current and well-established Orthodox background – is an understandable concern for many, to be sure; and there are other Halacha-related issues that also come into play in such cases. To some, such concerns may even be paramount, and that stance is their prerogative.

  13. Ralph says:

    Kiss and make up now guys.

  14. samuraimohel says:

    “allow for a bias”, more weasel words. Can you find any more convoluted and indirect ways to go about dodging the issue.

    I’m not a second class citizen. No one’s a second class citizen unless they choose to be in pursuit of victimization.

    You claim that Rabbi Shafran “trying to minimize the concerns of ben niddahism I raised”, at no point in time for Rabbi Shafran mention ben niddahism or give any sign that he’s ever read anything you’ve written.

    “The importance of “family” – i.e. the “pedigree” of a current and well-established Orthodox background – is an understandable concern for many, to be sure; and there are other Halacha-related issues that also come into play in such cases. To some, such concerns may even be paramount, and that stance is their prerogative.”

    Rabbi Shafran is talking about the possibility of non-Jewish descent or the less common Mamzerus, which are the only issues commonly considered and which are genuine Halachic issues

    I’m tired.of you treating Judaism as your very own comic book

  15. DK says:

    “Rabbi Shafran is talking about the possibility of non-Jewish descent or the less common Mamzerus, which are the only issues commonly considered and which are genuine Halachic issues”

    Hahahaha! No. He is clearly NOT only talking about those. Mamzerus is hardly the case with most BTs, and when it is a problem, it is not an “understandable concern,” but rather. mandatory.

    “No one’s a second class citizen unless they choose to be in pursuit of victimization.”

    Complete nonsense. People are second class citizens all the time all over the world. Whether they choose to dwell on that or react to it is another issue.

  16. samuraimohel says:

    Read it again,

    “The importance of “family” – i.e. the “pedigree” of a current and well-established Orthodox background – is an understandable concern for many, to be sure; and there are other Halacha-related issues that also come into play in such cases”

    The issues Rabbi Shafran is talking about have to do with family, again common issues relating to jewish descent and mamzerus, not something as wacky as ben niddah, which outside of 5 people in bnei brak and you… no one cares about.

    For some people like you, victimization is itself an identity, which is just sad and sadder when you try to foist it on others

  17. DK says:

    The recruiting efforts of the Orthodox Union on behalf of the haredi BT yeshivas such as OS, Neveh, Kol Yaakov, and other Ben Niddahism institutions must be exposed, condemned, and the nominal but critical support of the OU among the secular and liberal Jewish masses, rescinded.

  18. Justin White says:

    1-“Black hats are not halachically binding, but plenty of haredim wear those.”

    DK-The basis of wearing kippot is that it was a minhag that became a halacha. Why would you think otherwise as far as wearing 2 head coverings.

    2-I know as a convert who has spent some time in Bnei Barak, that there are many BTs even amongst haredim. In fact, if all Jews “came back,” BTs would be the majority. I know that in Israel, some religious people have negative attitudes towards BTs and converts, but like everywhere else in the Jewish would, knowledge is low and ego is high. It’s best just to do your best and not worry too much what petty people think.

    3-I find it revealing that Samurai hold “rightest” views but is more liberal in moderating his comment section, yet many liberal bloggers like Silverstein are “leftist” in belief and fascists in regulating commenters who don’t hold exactly as they do!

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